Tantra Bensko Interviews Lynn Schirmer Tantra Bensko BIO Lynn Schirmer's BIO
An Interview with Lynn Schirmer

By Tantra Bensko

TB: Mad Hatters Review is proud to feature artist Lynn Schirmer, a very talented painter whose strangely beautiful, disturbing, and haunting work depicts her own experiences with torment beginning as a child growing up in a dualistic cult that systematically creates alternate personalities which split off to be able to cope with the painful, twisted experiences. The government and military commonly use and create multiple personalities for their programs such as MK Ultra, as has been well documented often, and this became Lynn’s life from an early age. She was also a subject of scientific experiments by various doctors, and this is a common occurrence as well, such as in the radiation experiments. While many people shy away from looking at such issues, the more awareness and compassion we can have for survivors, which are legion, the more we can truly grasp the reality of our human nature and society. Lynn’s art and words are exquisitely revealing, well thought out and articulate explorations into what goes on behind closed doors more often that commonly realized within programs that support our system of control. Looking within our way of life to see what supports these criminal activities.

LS: Perhaps a general introduction might be helpful.

I am a survivor of private and tax-funded torture that began in childhood. I was born into a cult whose belief system supported the ritualized and sadistic abuse of children. The group also profited from child trafficking, pornography, and prostitution. At the age of 3, I was tested for and inducted into a government behavioral control and medical experimentation program. Children of cult families were especially sought after because the programs utilized dissociative reactions common to traumatized children. Parents in the cult were easily persuaded or coerced, and some, as in my case, received status for having their children accepted.

The government program lasted throughout my entire childhood. Four to five times a year I was shuttled to various facilities, including hospitals, universities, and military bases, for training and experimentation. As an adult, I was used against my will in a variety of ways, including as a continuing experimental subject.

In the government program I was subjected to what is now commonly called Trauma-Based Mind Control. Trauma-Based Mind Control programming utilizes operant conditioning techniques, or a system of reward and punishment to get a desired behavior. The purpose of inflicting trauma is to have the conditioning take place while the subject is in a dissociated state so that she is unaware of the source of her behavior and experiences it as automatic. By behavior, I mean both external, such as an action, and internal behavior such as accessing a particular part of the brain, knowledge, memory, or intrinsic ability. Putting a child through this kind of process over a period of years while her brain and personality are developing, as you can imagine, can be very effective.

TB: Thank you so much for telling us about these things, a very important subject with needs more attention. I’m very sorry this happened to you, and I know they happen on a mass scale. How did you get out of the control of the government, able to live your own life and be free to talk with us now?

LS: I am able to talk about these things now after working for many years on my own and with knowledgeable and dedicated caregivers. There are therapists all over the country quietly assisting survivors to break free of conditioning, and slowly reintegrate parts of themselves and their life histories. Generally, survivors are vulnerable to contact and manipulation as long as they remain amnesic, with alter personalities stuck in a conditioned state. There are a number who have broken free and reclaimed themselves. For a variety of understandable reasons, many choose not to go public.

TB: And do you feel you are still in any danger from them?

LS: I don’t feel as if I am in danger at the moment, though certainly with the very nature of this situation, staying reasonably vigilant is in order. The irony is that we face the most danger when a particular case or process comes close to credibly exposing these criminal networks and programs. As long as people are unaware or believe our claims are incredible, we aren’t a threat. This is not meant to discourage anyone, on the contrary. It will take either a delicate balance in a sequence of events or a groundswell of public activity to bring about serious change.

TB: Are you free to tell us more about what you were involved in specifically against your will?

LS: I am not ready to share much more of what I was used for as an adult. I haven’t come to grips with many of the experiences yet. I can add that I have been accessed for sexual purposes, and that because such elaborate programming was tested on me, I have been used as a sort of prototype, sometimes present in the labs while others have been programmed.

TB: Can you give readers suggestions to help them be able to discern if they have or have not been involved in programming that has been suppress in their memory?

LS: While a well trained mind control subject will not notice missing time on a daily basis, it is still a good marker. It took me quite a few years, because I had rationalized most of my missing memory as being normative. One test would be to measure how much of your childhood you actually remember compared with others you know. How well does your memory work in general? Another would be to simply listen to your own thoughts. People who are multiple (have Dissociative Identity Disorder) will hear distinct variations in the internal voice, and experience it as more of a conversation.

TB: What do you hope viewers will do once they see your paintings?

LS: I hope that they will take the material I offer on the subjects, do some research, and ideally respond in some positive or active way.

TB: You have given some suggestions in your website for activism. Feel free to expand on some ideas for the readers to do if they feel moved to help with the pervasive problem of ritual abuse for the sake of programming individuals.

LS: The most important thing is to accept that Ritual Abuse-Torture and mind control are real. With RAT, we have enough cases now to demonstrably make that point, such as Dutroux in Belgium and recently Ponchatoula in Louisiana. The Dutroux case also highlighted elite involvement in child trafficking, pornography, and prostitution. For tax-funded mind control programs we have declassified documents specifically calling for the use of children and the manipulation of dissociative conditions, not to mention the testimony of survivors, published memoirs, and books by researchers.

Activism in these areas is very difficult. Not only is one up against public denial, but local and national authorities may be compromised as we saw in the Franklin case. There are small groups and non-profits working to gain recognition for these crimes. For starters, I suggest that people support these groups in any way they see fit.

There are other things we can do, such as lobbying the government to keep accurate records of missing children. They keep better track of stolen cars at the moment. We should put more pressure on academic institutions to study the effects of early trauma and dissociative conditions, and to train clinicians in recognizing them.

TB: Can you explore a couple of the art pieces for us?

Perfluorocarbon Drowning  Lynn Schirmer
Perfluorocarbon Drowning © Lynn Schirmer

LS: A recent painting I completed is called "Perfluorocarbon Drowning". The contractors running mind control programs were scientists and military people. Many of the same researchers were active in various military medical experimentation programs, including radiation and biological and chemical weapons. Their procedures in the lab often had a dual purpose. Not only were subjects traumatized to induce dissociative states, many of us were used for medical experiments. If an experiment could achieve both at the same time, so much the better.

Many survivors have described incidences of intentional drowning. I was also subjected to this several times. That's why it was highly validating to learn that not only does perfluorocarbon exist, it is now available on the open market and is used in hospital settings, usually in post-op for lung patients. Perfluorocarbon is breathable fluid. My memories of being thrown into a tank and left to drown, and what occurred when I managed to remain somewhat conscious and alive while breathing "under water" now make sense. If you conduct an Internet search on perfluorocarbon you are likely to find a hoto of a mouse or rat submerged in a beaker of liquid. That's what they did with us kids too.

Burial © Lynn Schirmer

I have a painting that is related to "Perfluorocarbon Drowning" in that it expresses how I felt in the midst of a near-death experience. It is called "Burial" This torture was carried out by the cult however, when I was very young. It was an absolutely horrific experience and intended to condition and control. The practice was to take a wooden box or pseudo coffin and bury the child alive for a period of time. Sometimes rituals centering on rebirth or welcoming into the cult were performed as the child was unearthed. Many survivors of RAT speak of similar experiences.

TB: Yes, the drowning, and especially the burial, are very common in secret society rituals throughout history, including the Mithras cult, with the burial of the sun god being acted out on Dec. 25. The Osiris death myth is acted out by the Masons. The ritual aspect of it in cults has been made wide use of for fear tactics as well. I’m sure it was horrifying being underground like that, and would have traumatized other children watching it as well.

Lynn, I applaud how organized and well documented your education of the public on the subject of mind control through ritual trauma has been. Your quotes, bibliography, and well reasoned, level-headed approach should be thoroughly convincing even to the skeptic that the government is using cults as a way of programming people to do what they want them to do.

Personally, I'm very familiar with this widespread and heartbreaking problem, and am an activist myself, having worked for MK Zine, for example. That magazine is about government mind control programs such as MK Ultra, and Monarch, in which women are abused sexually and made into sex slaves, assassins, couriers, and spies. After many years of intense research, I have no question that ritual abuse, including sexual molestation, including family members, is very common because it works very well for creating multiples. I have always been drawn to help with this issue because I empathize with the victims of it.

And knowing this kind of soul-shaking torture can happen to people brings up questions in mind about the nature of humanity. I do have to say I believe on one level there is such a thing as being a victim. I don't believe the New Age idea that we solely create our reality, which seems to blame the victim. I feel we co-create our reality, and the chaos theory allows other forces to also be at work in our lives, not only our own. What do you say to the "You create your own reality; change your beliefs and you change your life because you are drawing everything to you" camp?

LS: I would say that is a coping mechanism. It is very difficult for people to simultaneously acknowledge our capacity for acts of evil while maintaining a fundamental connection to the community. These coping mechanisms are central to most belief systems. This one is especially insidious for the reason you stated. I will not deny however, that once someone is accustomed to victimization that he or she will be more vulnerable to it on a continuing basis. In those situations, it may well appear to an outsider that one is attracting negative experiences unto oneself. These New Age groups have misinterpreted that scenario and expanded it into the spiritual realm. That takes behavior that we can analyze and change into the world of belief where we have no control. It is extremely destructive.

TB: Do you feel some part of us that is aware before our birth chooses our lives we are born into sometimes, all the time, or never?

LS: I am not immune to the idea, but the times I have wondered about it could be explained by my needing to compensate for some emotional state or another. As a human being with capacities limited to existing in this environment, I cannot know the answers to questions such as those. I am comfortable and I feel more humble when I accept that I do not know.

TB: How has painting art from your memories changed your experience?

LS: I'm not certain I can quantify that. Being an artist is part of who I am. I am grateful because I believe it has helped me cope in ways I could not adequately express.

TB: Has it been useful in integrating your alters?

LS: It has been useful in helping me feel more connected and empathetic towards my alters. It is very empowering to see visual representations of them in the art I create. I get very attached to my pieces, and it can be difficult to let them go, especially to a stranger.

TB: Have you ever painted from a specific alter rather than an integrated self?

LS: Like most painters, I employ a number of processes to produce art. There is the source, or inspiration which even though I am a multiple seems to be typical. It feels somewhat disconnected or outside of myself, and not necessarily under my control (though I don't believe that to be the case, I believe that area of the brain is not connected to a certain kind of self awareness). Then there is an editing process, which involves conscious or intentional planning. The latter does come under the influence of a few specific alters, so in a sense I have a team working. I believe my best works result from two extremes. They are either the product of a completely spontaneous or automatic process with little editing, or a very long process with a lot of correction.

TB: Do you feel you paint primarily as a personally cathartic process or are you more focused on getting a message across to the viewers in an artistic sense?

LS: I rarely feel a sense of catharsis as most people might imagine it, at least I am not aware of it while I'm creating the work. Creating does allow me to release some tension, in a general way. I don't know any artists who have an easy answer to these types of questions. Why do I paint? Well, because I must, it is part of who I am. Certainly the ability to express to the public what is for me unspeakable is something I have benefited from in immeasurable ways. Anyone who has gone through significant trauma needs recognition from the community, it is a part of healing. What happened to me is still largely denied by authorities, and society in general; there is no redress available. Needing to bring awareness is not so much a motivator to create, but to show the work and talk about its origins.

TB: What do you feel you have accomplished by your body of work?

LS: On a personal level, the most profound thing I have accomplished is breaking the rules. I was severely punished as a child, including having my fingers dislocated, for drawing images of the trauma I was experiencing. I have been threatened repeatedly with the ultimate consequence if I should ever tell. I have been specifically ordered not to paint. Well, I am painting, and I am telling. Not only that, I must call upon the very part of my self they sought to extinguish in order to do so. Being able to paint is a personal victory over tyranny and control.

Other things I hope to accomplish cannot yet be determined. I hope to provide visual documentation of the internal experience of a highly misunderstood and needlessly controversial condition, DID. I hope to provide images that help validate the experiences of survivors of extreme trauma. Ultimately I hope to bridge the gap in understanding for those who have not had these experiences.

TB: Tell me about your painting technique.

LS: My technique has changed as I have experimented over the years, but the process of getting a basic image out has remained the same. I approach a blank canvas or paper and begin with simple lines. I can think of only three or four times that I have ever done preliminary sketches or studies, and even then I did not plot them out on canvas. I do not use models, and rarely use references; the images emerge spontaneously. Most of the time I have no idea what will come out. From the line work I proceed to flesh out the figures and ground.

TB: What are your other interests in life that have influenced your artwork and perspective?

LS: I am highly involved in my local arts community, and I enjoy that work very much. I have always been interested in the biological sciences, and politics, but these also dovetail with researching and understanding my history. Honestly, my main interest in life has always been to recover and to lead as normal a life as is possible. Coping with everything is still a major task. Eventually I want to be free to enjoy all the facets of life that most people do — love, friendship, even the banality of a regular work week.

TB: Lynn, you've experienced something extraordinary, exploring the many facets of the psyche pulled apart and put together again. Your consciousness has traveled through the cracks, has taken extreme measures to survive and gone places most people have never dreamed of — well, maybe, in some ways, it is similar to dreams - going into different personae and imaginations. Would you say your various facets were very imaginative and creative?

Ralph © Lynn Schirmer

LS: They were very creative. Interestingly, they exhibited whatever type of processing is typical for their age, and often employed magical thinking. I have a painting called "Ralph." Ralph is the animal-like character, somewhat resembling a teddy bear, in the center of the piece. Ralph was a protective alter who helped with physical pain. The rationale was, if he was covered in fur material, rather than skin, he could not be hurt. I've also had alters imagine themselves as dogs, lions, horses and other animals. It is indeed amazing what the mind can do to protect selfhood under such extreme circumstances.

TB: Please give us some insights gleaned from your experiences in the far reaches and nooks and crannies of personality and the nature of self

LS: I work with caregivers whose central belief is that we all contain a Core self. This Core self is inviolate, and that is how we heal. It is not the traditional concept of the Core as the child before the trauma, but a part of being that fundamentally remains intact even while it is stripped of so many characteristics through trauma and dissociation.

If you can notice very minute details about a person's personality, an idiosyncratic facial movement or voice inflection, I know that these can be split off in a multiple, like pieces of a giant puzzle. The fragments may be so small that they hold only one memory and the way I might have naturally curled my lip. That is pretty astounding to think about, the scale of disintegration, and what it means for survivors when we recover ourselves. There are moments of joy in recovery I don't believe I could accurately account for in words. What happens in regaining some authentic naturalness of movement, or spontaneity in speech, that most people take for granted, perhaps that will be a future painting.

TB: Our fantastic webmaestress, Shirley Harshenin, is a wonderful person who, from my experience with her in the magazine all this time, remains balanced and stable and clear in spite of having been raised in a dualistic cult herself. I have great empathy and respect for her, and was very happy that once the interview was sent to her, she came up with a passionate list of questions for Lynn that are moving, and insightful, bringing us more details about Lynn’s experiences, and adding to that, Shirley’s similar descriptions. Seeing the triggering, release, and bonding that can happen when survivors share emotional stories can help us understand Lynn’s art in a wider, and more personal context.

Shirley Harshenin Continues the Interview...

SH: First I want to say how pleased I am that you accepted our invitation! Having lived through “transgenerational satanic ritual abuse” myself, I have a keen interest in seeing this topic covered — knowledge is power! High kudos to you, and those like you, who are able to share their experiences — advocates for a cause most folks don't want to know exists, let alone talk about. I am so excited!

LS: Hi Shirley, I'm sorry you went through similar horrors. I hope you are recovering well.

SH: I am, thank you. I am curious to know how you remembered? Did you always remember? Was it during therapy you remembered? Or like me, sought help because you thought you were going crazy — my mind couldn't be remembering actual events?

LS: There were incidents of abuse I never dissociated. Then over time as I've aged and de-programmed I've gained access to parts who have always remembered. It has happened both inside and outside of therapy. It took several years to be able to accept that the most extreme material was real.

SH: I have memories where at different points in my "normal" (my life was split, very divided between that stuff which was NOT to be mentioned and "normal" everyday stuff, like going to public school, watching Sesame Street, riding a bike.) day I would see something I was not supposed to see, like the black robe in the back of my parents' closet. It was the weirdest feeling, because I saw it and knew I was not allowed to see it and it was like little picture frame shots getting smaller, smaller, smaller as it moved closer, closer, closer to the center of my head until it disappeared. I recall two very distinct occasions where this happened. The other time involved a book I was not supposed to see, or read. Any experiences like that happen to you, Lynn?

LS: Yes, I remember a few incidents where the secret side was revealed in the daylight side, and I remember the punishment for talking about it.

SH: Were you abused/programmed at home and in labs? Were they connected — home and labs/government?

LS: I was abused and there was some early manipulation of alters within cult settings, but all the formal splitting and setting up of my internal system took place in the labs. My family had a connection to someone working within the government programs, that was how I was recruited. Many of the doctors, though not all, were active in cults at times. They were at least aware of the activity and would call up alters storing memories of ritual torture and use them for various purposes.

SH: I can relate to so much of what you talk about. Your painting "The Pick One Game," that was big in the cult — making us chose who they were going to do stuff to, to make us feel a part of the "game," to feel responsible. How could we "tell" then, eh? We were part of it, we'd go to "jail" too.

The Pick One Game  Lynn Schirmer
The Pick One Game © Lynn Schirmer

LS: Making the victim complicit is a fairly common indoctrination technique, and not just in cult settings. The threat about going to jail is also common. I've often said that the worst thing they ever did to me was forcing me to hurt others.

You are right about "The Pick One Game." When I painted it I thought about an exercise they put children through in the labs. Our personalities were assessed based on how quick we were to administer shocks to other children or ourselves.

SH: Twisted, corrupt, evil — there just is not one word that can fully describe this horror.

What is the trigger with those faces? Demon-like faces. I saw demon-like faces, but were they real demons? Were they people costumed just to terrorize us? Were they disfigured children? Or all of the above?

Burial  Lynn Schirmer
Burial © Lynn Schirmer

LS: I don't have memories of demon faces, but I have memories of different costumes they wore. Some were used to show rank or play a role in a ritual, some to terrify, and some to make what we might eventually recount seem absolutely incredible.

SH: Indeed. I’ve read of incidences where daycare children disclosed of trips to places like Las Vegas (when they lived in say, Oregon, and a trip within the daycare visit time allotment just wouldn’t be possible — thus, discredits the claim) with Barney and Betty Rubble (costumed perpetrators — they’re Barney and Betty to the kids).

Not only is the face in “Burial" a trigger for me, but the idea of “burial” is as well. That was big in the cult where I came from — being buried alive. I remember being in a coffin/casket and the uncle that rescued me. It was all a set up for me to get close to him, a test to see if I'd confess, then be tortured for "telling." I also remember being buried in an old septic tank - empty but disgusting, and the pain of sunlight in my eyes when the lid was removed. Sick stuff.

LS: I'm sorry that happened to you, Shirley. I've heard similar stories from other survivors, and I too was locked away in a wide variety of containers and small spaces.

SH: You don’t have memories of seeing "demon" faces, yet I see a lot of this in the art of mind control survivors - as in the face in your "Burial" piece. I was curious to know where the faces come from? I mean, are they memories of faces seen, and if so, are they "demons", or are they perpetrators masked or in make-up, or are they disfigured children? The faces are alien-like, in that they are not "normal" faces, they're, in my opinion (and I am not religious, at all) demon-like.

LS: I had not ever made the leap that these were demon faces. I don't believe in demons. The face in "Burial" is a physical expression of the horror I felt at having been buried, such intense fear, rage, and self hatred.

SH: Thank you, Lynn. Yes, that makes perfect sense. Terror-filled faces. A friend who has been through similar experiences shared with me her shock at seeing her facial expression via videotape during a REM (rapid eye movement) session in therapy. It took a bit to recognize herself, and what her face expressed. The moment of clarity, when she realized her face was contorted in terror, was profound for her, and for me in the retelling.

Speaking of faces, expressions, and clarity, did you see them switch — switch from normal, like normal mom and dad, to THEM? You could feel the air change, you could see their eyes change, you knew it was trouble, and there was nothing you could do.

LS: I learned to detect changes in behavior very early, it was part of survival. I am familiar with that sinking feeling that it was going to be a bad night.

SH: Did they do stuff with numbers too? Numbers were big triggers for me.

LS: Yes, numbers or strings of numbers can have a great deal of meaning for occult groups. They also used numbers as triggers and labeling systems for alters in the government programs.

SH: Numbers, and modified nursery rhymes.

In your case, who all was involved? parents? grandparents? aunts? uncles? cousins? siblings?

Your art and titles of your art are so triggering for me. How can people do these kinds of things? I'll never understand.

LS: Family, people in the community, doctors and researchers, military personnel.

I'm sorry the work is triggering. There is help and support out there, though. It is shocking what some people are capable of doing. I don't have answers myself, just a lot of theories.

SH: Thank you for your concern. I'm very in touch with what is going on inside of me, and know what to do to get through the tough times — lots of years of therapy — all good, all necessary. I am excited about doing this gallery and working with you in getting this interview online.

Family, people in the community, doctors and researchers, military personnel — I think this is why the general public is skeptical of this type of abuse/mind control, because you try telling them that it involved a whole community — police, doctors, teachers, and in my case, parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins, siblings. I've read the label/clinical description of Transgenerational Satanic Ritual Abuse***, and that seems fairly accurate to what I experienced. Do you believe there is an association between this and the type of government-controlled abuse you experienced? The indoctrination/mind control techniques certainly are parallel.

*** Both maternal and paternal grandparents were involved — both grandfathers were military men, although my maternal grandfather never went to war. This aspect, that both maternal and paternal sides were involved makes my story even more incredulous to the general public. It's unfathomable to them. I understand. I wouldn't want to believe, either. But I don't have that option. It happened.

LS: I talked about the association a little in my introduction and I write about it on my website. Some of the techniques are parallel. There was overlap between government personnel and cult activity. There is some evidence for the theory that early researchers in the programs came out of an occult tradition and that is one source for the trauma indoctrination technique.

As for the label Transgenerational SRA, this type of abuse certainly seems to be transgenerational, but researchers have found a number of groups practicing ritualized abuse, or abuse/torture in group settings, but not all of the belief systems are necessarily satanic. Most major religions or organizations can contain within them a subset of people who simultaneously practice a belief in an oppositional force. This is the concept of dualism. We are dealing with dualistic cults.

SH: You said you have a lot of theories. Could you explain further? What are some of your theories? I, too, have had theories, but none seem conceivable.

LS: My theories are based in psychology and our evolution as social animals. They have to do with how the capacity for empathy can be shut down, and how severe trauma, inadequate or negative attachments, and the fight or flight response can get cross-wired to create a perpetrator. That this kind of extreme abuse is most often generational points to learned behavior as well. On a broader level there are cultures who've practiced child sacrifice and euthanasia. These practices may have originally arisen based on the necessities of group survival. I wish I could go into more detail, but that could be a whole other interview or essay. Whatever the case, humans are capable of just about any horrific act one could imagine.

SH: Indeed. M. Scott Peck, MD touches on this in his book, People of the Lie. Good book.

I remember a lot of underground facilities — cement rooms, tunnels, pillars. Do you have similar memories? Or were the labs you refer to in actual government/medical buildings? I also remember attending "summer school" in a small community in the mountains, where we were taught many things, one of which was writing backwards. Did you attend anything like that?

LS: Yes, I have memories of facilities with features such as those. I did not attend any sort of special school or camp, however. Many survivors speak of trips to facilities being covered with stories of having been to camp.

SH: Another question, our pets — cats and litters of kittens, a dog, a bird — were all tortured in front of us, and many were mutilated and killed. Was that part of your abuse as well? Or did your home life not include that type of abuse? I recall one incident where my mother actually mutilated a kitten in front of us, on our kitchen counter. She then planted the kitten's body parts out in an old fort in the backyard where out cats slept. We were then tortured — air supply cut off — to the point of blacking out. The next morning mom told us she'd heard a horrible cat fight during the night and we had better go check on the kitten. We were in shock when we saw the kitten all in pieces, but had no recollection of our mother doing it. When we staggered back to the house in shock, she was watching us, observing our reaction. Did anything like that happen in your home life? Or were you tortured/observed only in controlled lab rooms/environments?

LS: In my case, animals were tortured only in ritual settings, or in the labs.

SH: I recall a "ceremony" (again, for lack of better term) where we were "reborn," actually birthed out of a cow carcass. Do you recall anything like that?

LS: Yes, that's also a common practice, to put children into carcasses.

SH: There was so much trickery involved in different ceremonies so, as children, we couldn't differentiate between the real and the staged. It was indeed devastating to realize through analyzing different senses — smell, sound, touch — that some of the stuff we witnessed was real, real mutilation and even death. But, it was also a deep sense of relief to know that not all it was real. The RCMP investigating my case just couldn't get his head around where all the children that were "sacrificed" came from? Well, now I have a couple of answers. One, there weren't as many as I first envisioned, because some mutilations/deaths were in fact staged. Two, what did he mean, from where? Just try Googling "missing children"! Overwhelming. In your experience were there possibly staged incidents? Were there deaths? Sacrifices? In my experience, the deaths were for apparent "sacrifice" but in a government lab setting, I don't know if this was part of it, and if so, what was the purpose?

LS: I believe there were more staged events than actual ones. It's not easy to cover up that kind of evidence. Animal parts were used as substitutes at rituals. In the labs they had access to all kinds of footage and photographs from the battlefield, executions, and death camps, and they used those to terrify subjects.

SH: One last question. Were you programmed to self-destruct (either suicide or "go crazy") if you ever "told"? There were actual points along a highway I drove regularly that were places I was to drive over. It took remaining conscious and alert to drive that highway after "telling." It wasn't like I wanted to commit suicide, it was like, "I'm supposed to drive over that cliff." Were you programmed similarly?

LS: Yes, that is also a very common type of conditioning. Most of us conquer it as you have.

SH: Indeed. Thank you so much, Lynn. Your openness and sharing are much appreciated.

LS: Thank you too for being willing to address this material and sharing so openly.

Read Lynn's S.M.A.R.T. Conference Transcript HERE.



Lynn’s Art

Ritual Abuse, Crime & Healing


People of the Lie, M. Scott Peck, MD

Breaking the Cycle of Satanic Ritual Abuse, Daniel Ryder

Believe the Children (BTC) Newsletter Articles

North American Freedom Foundation (NAFF)

Morning, Come Quickly by Wanda Karriker

Report of the Ritual Abuse Task Force - Los Angeles County Commission for Women

Rigorous Intuition: What you don't know can't hurt them
Part 1: http://rigorousintuition.blogspot.com/2005/07/interview-with-jackie-mcgauley-part.html
Part 2: http://rigorousintuition.blogspot.com/2005/07/interview-with-jackie-mcgauley-part_19.html

Chronology of the McMartin Preschool Abuse Trials

Ritual Abuse Torture

Four-part Interview with Kathleen Sullivan


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